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Rat to human conversion of WAY100635

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1 Rat to human conversion of WAY100635 on Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:31 pm

Brooks W. Esq


Hello Jay, need an accurate conversion of WAY100635 intravenious. I know in rat doses the intravenous dose is all the way up to 20 mgs. Since when converting rat to human dose you take the rat dose and divide by 6.2, because rats require higher doses because they metabolize quicker, then the max transdermal/intravenious dose of WAY100635 for a human is 3.2mgs, is my math correct?
This has been so hard because I came up with 20mgs for the last rat dosage, but it seems that 3mgs is actually the correct intravenious dose for a rat. What do you think?

2 Re: Rat to human conversion of WAY100635 on Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:01 pm

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Brooks W. Esq wrote:Hello Jay, need an accurate conversion of WAY100635 intravenious. I know in rat doses the intravenous dose is all the way up to 20 mgs. Since when converting rat to human dose you take the rat dose and divide by 6.2, because rats require higher doses because they metabolize quicker, then the max transdermal/intravenious dose of WAY100635 for a human is 3.2mgs, is my math correct?
This has been so hard because I came up with 20mgs for the last rat dosage, but it seems that 3mgs is actually the correct intravenious dose for a rat. What do you think?

No, you would use the mouse dose, so it would end up being a dose range of 1 mg - 3 mg / kg, 3 mg is sufficient to hit post-synaptic receptors, so you take 3 mg and multiply by the mouse km which is 3 that = 9. Then 9 divided by the human km which is 37 = 0.243 x the kg of weight for the human, assume 60, is 0.24 x 60 = 14.59 mg.

Apply the safety factor FIRST, means we would start at a dose of about 3-5 mg and work up to 15 mg.

That's the only way to apply that sort of math, converting rat doses is clumbsy and other factors such as metabolism have to be take into account plus their variable size versus a mouse translates to a slightly different result based on body surface area.





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3 Re: Rat to human conversion of WAY100635 on Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:57 pm

Brooks W. Esq


Thank you, Lecozotan is so easy as the clinical trials already established the adult dose as a simple 2mgs lol, WAY is a bit more difficult it seems

4 Re: Rat to human conversion of WAY100635 on Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:11 pm

Brooks W. Esq


It seems that 3 mgs is the rat dose not mouse dose

5 3 mg for rats on Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:13 pm

Brooks W. Esq


6 Re: Rat to human conversion of WAY100635 on Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:38 pm

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Brooks W. Esq wrote:It seems that 3 mgs is the rat dose not mouse dose

It's the mouse dose as well. Mice use anywhere between 0.3mg/kg - 3mg if they want the post-synaptic receptors *fully occupied*. Read these studies below.

Arrow https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19219759
Arrow https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2829213/
Arrow http://www.jneurosci.org/content/25/47/10831

Listen dude, I don't have time for all these games, you need to actually do your research before you try correcting me, it's getting ridiculous. You keep second-guessing what I've told you and explained to you like 30x. Then you cherry pick that study which proves nothing.

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7 Re: Rat to human conversion of WAY100635 on Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:46 pm

Brooks W. Esq


Area, these are state of the art concepts, double and triple checking our work is of the utmost importance. Nobody is playing games here, I'm trying to make investments into advancing PSSD research and want to make sure the calculations are flawless; there is no room for error. I wasn't trying to correct or second guess, only double check and verify; the responsibility of any advancing scientist. And I didn't cherry pick any study, I saved that study as one of the only ones that provides an actual dosing, it was one of the first I came across. The reason I asked you was because I have much confidence in you and your ability to decipher these studies.

8 Re: Rat to human conversion of WAY100635 on Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:45 pm

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Brooks W. Esq wrote:Area, these are state of the art concepts, double and triple checking our work is of the utmost importance. Nobody is playing games here, I'm trying to make investments into advancing PSSD research and want to make sure the calculations are flawless; there is no room for error. I wasn't trying to correct or second guess, only double check and verify; the responsibility of any advancing scientist. And I didn't cherry pick any study, I saved that study as one of the only ones that provides an actual dosing, it was one of the first I came across. The reason I asked you was because I have much confidence in you and your ability to decipher these studies.

You would start at around 3 mg of WAY or less if you really want to play it safe. Start with 1.5 mg if you are concerned. It will still (probably) have to come up to a dose of 15 mg for most people.

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