Area-1255

Area-1255's official forum for all of our life extension enthusiasts, bodybuilders, fitness geeks and for those just interested in science and technology.


You are not connected. Please login or register

Need advice

Go to page : Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 2 of 2]

26 Re: Need advice on Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:42 pm

siebs1122


Sounds good, thanks for all of the advice. Merry Christmas!

27 Re: Need advice on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:20 pm

siebs1122


Area-1255 wrote:
siebs1122 wrote:


So you don't think the forskolin withdrawal altered my Acetylcholine levels, making them too high or too low?
No I don't.
siebs1122 wrote:
I still don't see how withdrawing from forskolin could cause that intense of a withdrawal, and leave me with persistent withdrawal symptoms.
I think its a bodily reaction, something to do with the second messenger system being suddenly changed...

siebs1122 wrote:
What dosages would you recomend for MET and what are your thoughts on trying CDP or a racetam? Thanks.

Metergoline 1 MG for the first day, followed by 2 MG the second day, if no side-effects then continue on 4 MG for the rest of duration. CDP-Choline might help with brain fog, moreso the racetam will help with that, though. You can try them, all of the together might be best. Cheers, Merry Christmas!

Sorry one last question. Is there anything I can do/take to return cAMP levels back to normal?

28 Re: Need advice on Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:09 am

kpavel

avatar
Area-1255 Intelligence Oversight
Area-1255 Intelligence Oversight
siebs1122 wrote:
Area-1255 wrote:
siebs1122 wrote:


So you don't think the forskolin withdrawal altered my Acetylcholine levels, making them too high or too low?
No I don't.
siebs1122 wrote:
I still don't see how withdrawing from forskolin could cause that intense of a withdrawal, and leave me with persistent withdrawal symptoms.
I think its a bodily reaction, something to do with the second messenger system being suddenly changed...

siebs1122 wrote:
What dosages would you recomend for MET and what are your thoughts on trying CDP or a racetam? Thanks.

Metergoline 1 MG for the first day, followed by 2 MG the second day, if no side-effects then continue on 4 MG for the rest of duration. CDP-Choline might help with brain fog, moreso the racetam will help with that, though. You can try them, all of the together might be best. Cheers, Merry Christmas!

Sorry one last question. Is there anything I can do/take to return cAMP levels back to normal?

forskolin upregulates D2 dopamine receptors. These are cAMP lowering btw and are targets for most antipsychotics. Did forskolin make you move faster?

Ginkgo biloba can raise norepinephrine. How about ginseng?
The effect of Panax ginseng and diazepam on norepinephrine levels of whole brain and hypothalamus during stress
Objective: To see the effect of anti-stress agents like Panax ginseng and diazepam on stress-induced elevation of norepinephrine (NE) in brain and hypothalamus of rats. Methods: NE was estimated in brain and hypothalamus of rats by spectrophotoflurorimetry. Plasma corticosterone was measured by fluorimetry. Results: Panax ginseng and diazepam both per se did not modify NE levels of brain and hypothalamus in unstressed rats. But both the drugs attenuated stress-induced elevation of NE of brain and hypothalamus and simultaneously attenuated stress-induced elevation of plasma corticosterone. Conclusion: Anti-stress effect of Panax ginseng and diazepam seems to be mediated through attenuation of levels of NE in brain and hypothalamus.
So it's energizing but in a milder (not agitating) form.

29 Re: Need advice on Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:13 pm

siebs1122


kpavel wrote:
siebs1122 wrote:
Area-1255 wrote:
siebs1122 wrote:


So you don't think the forskolin withdrawal altered my Acetylcholine levels, making them too high or too low?
No I don't.
siebs1122 wrote:
I still don't see how withdrawing from forskolin could cause that intense of a withdrawal, and leave me with persistent withdrawal symptoms.
I think its a bodily reaction, something to do with the second messenger system being suddenly changed...

siebs1122 wrote:
What dosages would you recomend for MET and what are your thoughts on trying CDP or a racetam? Thanks.

Metergoline 1 MG for the first day, followed by 2 MG the second day, if no side-effects then continue on 4 MG for the rest of duration. CDP-Choline might help with brain fog, moreso the racetam will help with that, though. You can try them, all of the together might be best. Cheers, Merry Christmas!

Sorry one last question. Is there anything I can do/take to return cAMP levels back to normal?

forskolin upregulates D2 dopamine receptors. These are cAMP lowering btw and are targets for most antipsychotics. Did forskolin make you move faster?

Ginkgo biloba can raise norepinephrine. How about ginseng?
The effect of Panax ginseng and diazepam on norepinephrine levels of whole brain and hypothalamus during stress
Objective: To see the effect of anti-stress agents like Panax ginseng and diazepam on stress-induced elevation of norepinephrine (NE) in brain and hypothalamus of rats. Methods: NE was estimated in brain and hypothalamus of rats by spectrophotoflurorimetry. Plasma corticosterone was measured by fluorimetry. Results: Panax ginseng and diazepam both per se did not modify NE levels of brain and hypothalamus in unstressed rats. But both the drugs attenuated stress-induced elevation of NE of brain and hypothalamus and simultaneously attenuated stress-induced elevation of plasma corticosterone. Conclusion: Anti-stress effect of Panax ginseng and diazepam seems to be mediated through attenuation of levels of NE in brain and hypothalamus.
So it's energizing but in a milder (not agitating) form.

Forskolin significantly helped my SSRI-induced anxiety and anhedonia as well as my sexual functioning. It was slightly stimulating I suppose, but overall just made me feel more like myself. Now that I think back, I had some mild derealization the first week I was on it. Since withdrawing, I have full blown derealization.

I have looked into ginseng as well, I will try this before ginkgo biloba. I am also slightly hesitant on trying ginkgo because of its mild 5ht1A agonist activity.

Is D2 agonism bad in my case? I know metergoline is a pretty potent D2 agonist.
"...Summary: A dopamine agonist and serotonin antagonist. It has been used similarly to BROMOCRIPTINE as a dopamine agonist and also for MIGRAINE DISORDERS therapy."

Lastly, have you heard of the drug ibudliast? It is a potent anti-inflammatory sold in Japan to treat asthma. However, there are some anecdotal stories online that it can help with brain fog and is a potent nootropic.
http://www.lostfalco.com/ibudilast-for-cognitive-enhancement/

30 Re: Need advice on Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:41 am

kpavel

avatar
Area-1255 Intelligence Oversight
Area-1255 Intelligence Oversight
siebs1122 wrote:
kpavel wrote:
siebs1122 wrote:
Area-1255 wrote:
siebs1122 wrote:


So you don't think the forskolin withdrawal altered my Acetylcholine levels, making them too high or too low?
No I don't.
siebs1122 wrote:
I still don't see how withdrawing from forskolin could cause that intense of a withdrawal, and leave me with persistent withdrawal symptoms.
I think its a bodily reaction, something to do with the second messenger system being suddenly changed...

siebs1122 wrote:
What dosages would you recomend for MET and what are your thoughts on trying CDP or a racetam? Thanks.

Metergoline 1 MG for the first day, followed by 2 MG the second day, if no side-effects then continue on 4 MG for the rest of duration. CDP-Choline might help with brain fog, moreso the racetam will help with that, though. You can try them, all of the together might be best. Cheers, Merry Christmas!

Sorry one last question. Is there anything I can do/take to return cAMP levels back to normal?

forskolin upregulates D2 dopamine receptors. These are cAMP lowering btw and are targets for most antipsychotics. Did forskolin make you move faster?

Ginkgo biloba can raise norepinephrine. How about ginseng?
The effect of Panax ginseng and diazepam on norepinephrine levels of whole brain and hypothalamus during stress
Objective: To see the effect of anti-stress agents like Panax ginseng and diazepam on stress-induced elevation of norepinephrine (NE) in brain and hypothalamus of rats. Methods: NE was estimated in brain and hypothalamus of rats by spectrophotoflurorimetry. Plasma corticosterone was measured by fluorimetry. Results: Panax ginseng and diazepam both per se did not modify NE levels of brain and hypothalamus in unstressed rats. But both the drugs attenuated stress-induced elevation of NE of brain and hypothalamus and simultaneously attenuated stress-induced elevation of plasma corticosterone. Conclusion: Anti-stress effect of Panax ginseng and diazepam seems to be mediated through attenuation of levels of NE in brain and hypothalamus.
So it's energizing but in a milder (not agitating) form.

Forskolin significantly helped my SSRI-induced anxiety and anhedonia as well as my sexual functioning. It was slightly stimulating I suppose, but overall just made me feel more like myself. Now that I think back, I had some mild derealization the first week I was on it. Since withdrawing, I have full blown derealization.

I have looked into ginseng as well, I will try this before ginkgo biloba. I am also slightly hesitant on trying ginkgo because of its mild 5ht1A agonist activity.

Is D2 agonism bad in my case? I know metergoline is a pretty potent D2 agonist.
"...Summary: A dopamine agonist and serotonin antagonist. It has been used similarly to BROMOCRIPTINE as a dopamine agonist and also for MIGRAINE DISORDERS therapy."

Lastly, have you heard of the drug ibudliast? It is a potent anti-inflammatory sold in Japan to treat asthma. However, there are some anecdotal stories online that it can help with brain fog and is a potent nootropic.
http://www.lostfalco.com/ibudilast-for-cognitive-enhancement/
I wouldn't say that anxiety=psychosis and obviously not everyone will have this with say cabergoline. But if you ask google more directly you may find this for example
Effect of metergoline on human anxiety
In order to assess the role played by serotonin (5-HT) in subjective anxiety, three groups of 12 healthy volunteers were given 12 mg metergoline (MET), 10 mg diazepam (DZ) or placebo (PB), under double-blind conditions, and submitted to a simulated public speaking (SPS) test. MET increased state-anxiety scores, measured by Spielberg's State-Trait Anxiety Inventory. The effect of MET was significantly different from both the PB and DZ groups immediately before the SPS test (prestress) as well as 24 h after medication, and from the DZ group only, 2.5 h after the test (poststress). In contrast, DZ did not significantly affect subjective anxiety. The SPS test significantly increased anxiety in DZ- or PB-treated subjects as compared to prestress scores, whereas the increases in the MET group were not significant, probably because pretest levels were already high. No drug effect on heart rate, skin electrical conductance and quality of sleep during the night following medication was found. In addition, the drugs did not cause bodily symptoms that could secondarily affect mood. Since MET is a 5-HT receptor antagonist, active on the central nervous system, an inhibitory role of 5-HT on subjective anxiety might be suggested.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00432224

Do you want chocolate? I always wanted chocolate in my highest stress moments. Ritter sport is good btw Smile

I read short English wiki about  Ibudilast. Inflammation undoubtedly happens with dysregulated  serotonin. I also like that it may be helpful with stroke. Just like phenylpiracetam. I have good thoughts on my experience with it.

31 Re: Need advice on Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:32 pm

Area-1255

avatar
Admin / Head Writer
Admin / Head Writer
siebs1122 wrote:
Forskolin significantly helped my SSRI-induced anxiety and anhedonia as well as my sexual functioning. It was slightly stimulating I suppose, but overall just made me feel more like myself. Now that I think back, I had some mild derealization the first week I was on it. Since withdrawing, I have full blown derealization.

I have looked into ginseng as well, I will try this before ginkgo biloba. I am also slightly hesitant on trying ginkgo because of its mild 5ht1A agonist activity.

Is D2 agonism bad in my case? I know metergoline is a pretty potent D2 agonist.
"...Summary: A dopamine agonist and serotonin antagonist. It has been used similarly to BROMOCRIPTINE as a dopamine agonist and also for MIGRAINE DISORDERS therapy."

Lastly, have you heard of the drug ibudliast? It is a potent anti-inflammatory sold in Japan to treat asthma. However, there are some anecdotal stories online that it can help with brain fog and is a potent nootropic.
http://www.lostfalco.com/ibudilast-for-cognitive-enhancement/

Ibudilast would do the trick, or just add it in with Forskolin. Butea Superba is a cheaper option of course, but probably some 8X less effective than Ibudilast. Still a cAMP-PDE inhibitor, though.

Arrow http://www.thaiscience.info/Article%20for%20ThaiScience/Article/61/10009186.pdf

http://area-1255.forumotion.info

32 Re: Need advice on Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:56 pm

siebs1122


Area-1255 wrote:
siebs1122 wrote:
Forskolin significantly helped my SSRI-induced anxiety and anhedonia as well as my sexual functioning. It was slightly stimulating I suppose, but overall just made me feel more like myself. Now that I think back, I had some mild derealization the first week I was on it. Since withdrawing, I have full blown derealization.

I have looked into ginseng as well, I will try this before ginkgo biloba. I am also slightly hesitant on trying ginkgo because of its mild 5ht1A agonist activity.

Is D2 agonism bad in my case? I know metergoline is a pretty potent D2 agonist.
"...Summary: A dopamine agonist and serotonin antagonist. It has been used similarly to BROMOCRIPTINE as a dopamine agonist and also for MIGRAINE DISORDERS therapy."

Lastly, have you heard of the drug ibudliast? It is a potent anti-inflammatory sold in Japan to treat asthma. However, there are some anecdotal stories online that it can help with brain fog and is a potent nootropic.
http://www.lostfalco.com/ibudilast-for-cognitive-enhancement/

Ibudilast would do the trick, or just add it in with Forskolin. Butea Superba is a cheaper option of course, but probably some 8X less effective than Ibudilast. Still a cAMP-PDE inhibitor, though.

Arrow http://www.thaiscience.info/Article%20for%20ThaiScience/Article/61/10009186.pdf

Sounds good, I just ordered some ibudliast. Hopefully it does the trick! It seems that the metergoline may be starting to help as well.

33 Re: Need advice on Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:05 pm

siebs1122


By the way, I just found this website.
http://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/neurotransmitter_tests.html
They claim they can test neurotransmitter levels via urine samples? Is this legitimate and reliable?

34 Re: Need advice on Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:32 am

Area-1255

avatar
Admin / Head Writer
Admin / Head Writer
siebs1122 wrote:By the way, I just found this website.
http://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/neurotransmitter_tests.html
They claim they can test neurotransmitter levels via urine samples? Is this legitimate and reliable?

Yeah, that ones fine.

http://area-1255.forumotion.info

35 Re: Need advice on Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:52 am

bengt1350


Area-1255 wrote:
siebs1122 wrote:Hey guys, so I have been taking forskolin for about a month now for PSSD. It has been giving me tremendous sexual, emotional, and cognitive benefits. I am taking fairly high doses and I recently ran out and did not take it for 4 days. Starting on the third day of not taking it, I started to experience intense withdrawal (comparable to SSRI withdrawal). Upon reinstatement, things got a little better but the symptoms have not subsided. It has been a week since reinstatement and I am currently experiencing intense brain fog, anxiety, mood swings, insomnia and derealization, all of which were not there before. I have an intense pressure in my head as well. How could this have happened and why are these symptoms not residing after reinstatement? I was thinking about trying out a CDP-choline and a racetam, but I have read a lot of anecdotal stories online that taking them can worsen brain fog, so I am hesitant on trying it. Any advice is appreciated, thanks

Edit: I ordered some metergoline a couple of weeks back that I was going to try for PSSD. Should I still go through with taking this, even with these current symptoms?

Where did you order Metergoline from? You don't have any heart issues right? Metergoline has sodium channel (Na+) blocking activity, moreso in higher doses, so it can't be used with anesthetics or anything, but it does have good libido-boosting properties.

It should help your brain fog if anything.

It goes great with Forskolin as they both have similar actions [b

As far as WHY this has happened, that I don't know, could be your brain reinstated adrenergic-activity due to cyclic AMP fluctuations, the changes versus Forskolin's enhancement of the messenger/s versus your body's homeostasis response.

Do you mean that sodium channel blockers interact with each other? Nortriptyline is also a sodium channel blocker. Is it a bad mix with metergoline if you also have high blood pressure and pulse? My heart acted weird sometimes on the combination. But I don’t know if that was because I stupidly enough also took pomegranate extract which strongly raises nortriptyline blood levels due to CYP2D6 inhibition.

36 Re: Need advice on Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:17 pm

Area-1255

avatar
Admin / Head Writer
Admin / Head Writer
bengt1350 wrote:
Area-1255 wrote:
siebs1122 wrote:Hey guys, so I have been taking forskolin for about a month now for PSSD. It has been giving me tremendous sexual, emotional, and cognitive benefits. I am taking fairly high doses and I recently ran out and did not take it for 4 days. Starting on the third day of not taking it, I started to experience intense withdrawal (comparable to SSRI withdrawal). Upon reinstatement, things got a little better but the symptoms have not subsided. It has been a week since reinstatement and I am currently experiencing intense brain fog, anxiety, mood swings, insomnia and derealization, all of which were not there before. I have an intense pressure in my head as well. How could this have happened and why are these symptoms not residing after reinstatement? I was thinking about trying out a CDP-choline and a racetam, but I have read a lot of anecdotal stories online that taking them can worsen brain fog, so I am hesitant on trying it. Any advice is appreciated, thanks

Edit: I ordered some metergoline a couple of weeks back that I was going to try for PSSD. Should I still go through with taking this, even with these current symptoms?

Where did you order Metergoline from? You don't have any heart issues right? Metergoline has sodium channel (Na+) blocking activity, moreso in higher doses, so it can't be used with anesthetics or anything, but it does have good libido-boosting properties.

It should help your brain fog if anything.

It goes great with Forskolin as they both have similar actions [b

As far as WHY this has happened, that I don't know, could be your brain reinstated adrenergic-activity due to cyclic AMP fluctuations, the changes versus Forskolin's enhancement of the messenger/s versus your body's homeostasis response.

Do you mean that sodium channel blockers interact with each other? Nortriptyline is also a sodium channel blocker. Is it a bad mix with metergoline if you also have high blood pressure and pulse? My heart acted weird sometimes on the combination. But I don’t know if that was because I stupidly enough also took pomegranate extract which strongly raises nortriptyline blood levels due to CYP2D6 inhibition.

Probably all of the above. Definitely don't use Pomegranate with other drugs that both affect the heart. That's just stupid!

If you go off nortriptyline and then use Metergoline, is a better idea than using both at once. Besides, they contradict each other - you wouldn't be able to accurately assess your response by using both at the same time. So even though Metergoline may give you some benefit - you won't "know" what that benefit is or the true extent of it until serotonergic agents are out of your system.

Even if Metergoline blocks "most" of the receptors, you still won't achieve FULL benefit until the offending drug is withdrawn. So that's something to remember.

http://area-1255.forumotion.info

37 Re: Need advice on Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:39 am

bengt1350


Area-1255 wrote:
bengt1350 wrote:
Area-1255 wrote:
siebs1122 wrote:Hey guys, so I have been taking forskolin for about a month now for PSSD. It has been giving me tremendous sexual, emotional, and cognitive benefits. I am taking fairly high doses and I recently ran out and did not take it for 4 days. Starting on the third day of not taking it, I started to experience intense withdrawal (comparable to SSRI withdrawal). Upon reinstatement, things got a little better but the symptoms have not subsided. It has been a week since reinstatement and I am currently experiencing intense brain fog, anxiety, mood swings, insomnia and derealization, all of which were not there before. I have an intense pressure in my head as well. How could this have happened and why are these symptoms not residing after reinstatement? I was thinking about trying out a CDP-choline and a racetam, but I have read a lot of anecdotal stories online that taking them can worsen brain fog, so I am hesitant on trying it. Any advice is appreciated, thanks

Edit: I ordered some metergoline a couple of weeks back that I was going to try for PSSD. Should I still go through with taking this, even with these current symptoms?

Where did you order Metergoline from? You don't have any heart issues right? Metergoline has sodium channel (Na+) blocking activity, moreso in higher doses, so it can't be used with anesthetics or anything, but it does have good libido-boosting properties.

It should help your brain fog if anything.

It goes great with Forskolin as they both have similar actions [b

As far as WHY this has happened, that I don't know, could be your brain reinstated adrenergic-activity due to cyclic AMP fluctuations, the changes versus Forskolin's enhancement of the messenger/s versus your body's homeostasis response.

Do you mean that sodium channel blockers interact with each other? Nortriptyline is also a sodium channel blocker. Is it a bad mix with metergoline if you also have high blood pressure and pulse? My heart acted weird sometimes on the combination. But I don’t know if that was because I stupidly enough also took pomegranate extract which strongly raises nortriptyline blood levels due to CYP2D6 inhibition.

Probably all of the above. Definitely don't use Pomegranate with other drugs that both affect the heart. That's just stupid!

If you go off nortriptyline and then use Metergoline, is a better idea than using both at once. Besides, they contradict each other - you wouldn't be able to accurately assess your response by using both at the same time. So even though Metergoline may give you some benefit - you won't "know" what that benefit is or the true extent of it until serotonergic agents are out of your system.

Even if Metergoline blocks "most" of the receptors, you still won't achieve FULL benefit until the offending drug is withdrawn. So that's something to remember.

To complicate things even further, I also take parnate (60mg), memantine (20mg) and agomelatine. Of course, I checked for interactions first before trying metergoline. I even asked the drug interaction expert Ken Gillman about it.

The reason I later added pomegranate was to lower my blood pressure. But I only took it for three days before doing a full search for interactions. Incredibly stupid and unusual behavior of me as I always check thoroughly for interactions, especially regarding liver enzymes.

Well, nortriptyline does not have significant SRI potency. That’s why it’s safe to use with parnate. Check Ken Gillman’s articles. But yeah, what you say still applies since parnate certainly is serotonergic. But I probably need the parnate. I take it for atypical depression, social anxiety and (undiagnosed) AVPD. I also have post-ssri symptoms.

Anyways, I’m coming off nortriptyline. Mostly because of the anticholinergic side effects and its toxicity issues. I’m thinking of changing it for wellbutrin (going slow and with my psychiatrist) or reboxetine. Do you have any idea what would go best with metergoline? I’m a little worried about the seizure risk with wellbutrin and maybe I have to work on my blood pressure first. It’s a lot of meds I know, but I’m a hard case.

I should note that I recently had an EKG and it was normal. The "weird" feeling in my heart was most likely just the nortriptyline because I had the same feeling a month after taking any metergoline or pomegranate.

Sponsored content


View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 2 of 2]

Go to page : Previous  1, 2

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum