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1 Advice very much appreciated on Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:30 am

Jaxx


After one year of Paxil, 1.5 year ago, i never really felt the same: Overall blunted feelings, and libido severely impacted. Most annoyingly is that i dont enjoy anything anymore like i used to. As my orgasm is close to flat now, i suspect a dopamine (ratio) issue.

Since then ive tried several medication and suppliments, with mixed results:
- Wellbutrin, didnt help me at all, felt rushed without any positive impact on libido. My least preferred AD so-far.
- Aurorix/moclobemide. After 2 weeks it offered a 1 week window where i felt uplifted, fog-free and libido at 90%. Effect didnt last and the medication didnt do anything on mood so i quite.
- Muira puama, after 1 week it restored my libido, but also for about 1 week, after which the effect went away.
- St.Johns wort, didnt do much on low dose, on a higher dose it gave me another window of about 5 days. No effect on longer term so i quite after 2 months.
- Maca, didnt do much on normal dose so stopped after a month.
- Mirtazapine, didnt do much on mood. It did caused stronger erections, but that was only at the beginning and the food cravings stayed as the only effect, so i stopped.

I could really use input to explain these windows and i hope to find the magic bullet that helps me. I know that depression can mess up a body, but i really feel this is the effect of the SSRI, rather than effects of a depression.

Since this month, i have been taking gingko, at the recommended dosage (60mg). I do feel my brainfog is less, but libido isnt better.

My own search brought me to tianeptine, but it's a bit of a hassle to get it in my country, so before i order it i would like to hear your thoughts on this. In theory it makes alot of sense, and it's a rather safe medicine to give a shot.

I'd appreciate all knowlegable feedback and experiences!

Best,
Jaxx

2 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:23 am

kpavel

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Area-1255 Intelligence Oversight
Area-1255 Intelligence Oversight
Very interesting. You took paroxetine for social anxiety, right?
Muira puama and SJW part makes me think again we need some 5ht2a in some part of brain. PVN, MPOA, cerebellum - I don't know... I will try muira puama for a week. Only afraid of beta 1 adr effects. It's anxiogenic theoretically. And you may experiment with inositol or choline or cdp-choline or lecithin. They all have some reported benefits.

3 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:11 pm

Area-1255

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kpavel wrote:Very interesting. You took paroxetine for social anxiety, right?
Muira puama and SJW part makes me think again we need some 5ht2a in some part of brain. PVN, MPOA, cerebellum - I don't know... I will try muira puama for a week. Only afraid of beta 1 adr effects. It's anxiogenic theoretically. And you may experiment with inositol or choline or cdp-choline or lecithin. They all have some reported benefits.

Actually most of muira puama's benefits come from dopamine D1-agonism and beta-agonist action. It's pro-catecholamine and anti-GABA.

Arrow http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19067380

Phytother Res. 2009 Apr;23(4):519-24. doi: 10.1002/ptr.2664.
Antidepressant profile of Ptychopetalum olacoides Bentham (Marapuama) in mice.
Piato AL1, Rizon LP, Martins BS, Nunes DS, Elisabetsky E.
Author information
Abstract
Depression has become of universal major importance, and it is therefore vital to expand the armamentarium for treating the condition. Lack of motivation and lassitude are major symptoms treated with the use of Marapuama (Ptychopetalum olacoides, PO) remedies by communities in the Brazilian Amazon. Considering the prominence of such symptoms in depression, the present study was designed to verify the effects of a standardized PO ethanol extract (POEE) on the forced swimming (FST) and tail suspension tests (TST). POEE i.p. (15-100 mg/kg) and oral (300 mg/kg) resulted in a significant and dose-related anti-immobility effect. We further examined the involvement of dopamine, noradrenaline and serotonin in these antidepressant-like effects. POEE effects were prevented when catecholamine synthesis was inhibited by -alpha-methyl-rho-tyrosine (AMPT) (100 mg/kg, i.p.), while inhibition of serotonin synthesis with rho-chlorophenylalanine methyl ester hydrochloride (PCPA) (100 mg/kg, i.p.) was devoid of effect. The blockade of beta-adrenergic (propranolol 2 mg/kg, i.p.) and D(1) dopamine (SCH 23390 0.5 mg/kg, i.p.) receptors prevented POEE anti-immobility effects; by contrast, blockade of D(2) dopamine (sulpiride 2 and 50 mg/kg, i.p.) receptors was ineffective. Consistent with traditional use, the results indicate that POEE possesses antidepressant-like effects, possibly mediated by beta-adrenergic and D(1) dopamine receptors.
(c) 2008 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
PMID: 19067380 DOI: 10.1002/ptr.2664
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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4 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:12 pm

Area-1255

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Admin / Head Writer
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5-HT2AR's inhibit hCG-stimulated testosterone production and control the negative feedback loop that gonadotropins exert / activate when secreted, therefore, for men at least, we want to block 2AR.

See below.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1312425

Endocrinology. 1992 Apr;130(4):1780-8.
Regulation of corticotropin-releasing factor secretion from Leydig cells by serotonin.
Tinajero JC1, Fabbri A, Dufau ML.
Author information
Abstract
CRF is produced in the Leydig cells and acts as a negative autocrine regulator of Leydig cell function. To clarify the hormonal control of CRF secretion by Leydig cells, we evaluated the participation of serotonin (5HT) and serotonin agonists in the release of CRF from Leydig cells and their effects on hCG-induced cAMP generation and steroidogenesis. Serotonin stimulated CRF secretion up to 4-fold above basal levels and inhibited basal and hCG-stimulated cAMP generation and testosterone production (ID50, 1 nM). The inhibitory action of 5HT was prevented by a CRF antibody and the alpha-helical CRF-(9-41) antagonist. The selective 5HT2 receptor agonist (+-)1-[2,5-dimethoxy-4-iodophyryl]2-amino propane hydrochloride (DOI) also stimulated CRF secretion and inhibited hCG-stimulated cAMP generation and testosterone production to control levels (ID50, 7 microM). Serotonergic 5HT1A, 5HT1B/1C, 5HT1D, and 5HT3/5HT2 agonists were less effective inhibitors of hCG-stimulated cAMP and testosterone production, while agonists for the 5HT3 receptor had no effect. [125I]DOI binding studies in Leydig cells demonstrated two sets of receptors with Kd values in the nanomolar and micromolar range, with low and high capacities, respectively. The low affinity site differed from that of brain receptors (Kd, 4.2 nM) and displayed higher binding capacity (50-fold). The selective 5HT2 receptor antagonist ketanserin prevented CRF stimulation and blocked the inhibitory actions of 5HT and DOI, while the alpha 1-adrenergic antagonist prazosin had no effect. Also, treatment of cells with ketanserin increased sensitivity to hCG and raised maximal cAMP and testosterone production. 5HT was a more effective stimulus than hCG in stimulating CRF secretion, and gonadotropin-induced CRF release was inhibited by ketanserin. Inhibitory effects of exogenous CRF were demonstrable after blockade of 5HT action by ketanserin. The inhibitory actions of 5HT were unaffected by pertussis and cholera toxins and were reversed by the addition of 8-bromo-cAMP. These results demonstrate that 5HT acts on 5HT2 receptors in Leydig cells that are distinct from those in the brain to stimulate CRF secretion through a pertussis toxin-insensitive G-protein. This action of 5HT is predominantly mediated by the low affinity 5HT2-binding site and requires full occupancy for maximal CRF stimulation, indicating the absence of spare receptors. 5HT-stimulated CRF inhibits basal and hCG-induced cAMP generation and steroidogenesis. Furthermore, 5HT mediates the stimulatory action of LH/hCG on CRF secretion from Leydig cells and, thus, participates in a negative autoregulatory loop to limit the testosterone response to the gonadotropic stimulus.
PMID: 1312425 DOI: 10.1210/endo.130.4.1312425

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5 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:19 pm

Area-1255

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@Jaxx, I have a feeling you have catecholamine depletion, and your issue being mostly resolved by both muira puama and in some ways, meclobomide, shows proof of your issue. If you gained benefit from those, then perhaps you would gain greater benefit, especially if you suspect a dopamine deficiency, from mucuna pruriens extract (L-Dopa) + muira puama and then an optional addition of catuaba and / or flowering quince extract (Mu Gua).

See Here : https://area1255.blogspot.com/2014/12/list-of-purchasable-dris-dopamine.html

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6 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:54 pm

Jaxx


Thanks for the quick reply. Honestly, ive never heard of catecholamine depletion. Is this something the can be tested? My bloodworks so far came back normal on hormones and cortisol (although licorice root had some effect. Only tsh was elivated, but t3 t4 etc normal so i suspect this as a result, not a cause of it all.
Do i look at this dopamine shortage as a ratio dop-serotonine issue or an absolute shortage of dopamine?
I always found it weird that the muira puama and moclobemide effect was so short life, like a reserve pool was empty after a week.
Also, any idea why wellbutrin didnt have an effect if the solution should be in dopamine?
/Jaxx

7 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:58 pm

Jaxx


Ow almost forgot, any experience/thoughts on tianeptine?

8 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:50 pm

Area-1255

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Admin / Head Writer
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Jaxx wrote:Thanks for the quick reply. Honestly, ive never heard of catecholamine depletion. Is this something the can be tested? My bloodworks so far came back normal on  hormones and cortisol (although licorice root had some effect. Only tsh was elivated, but t3 t4 etc normal so i suspect this as a result, not a cause of it all.
Do i look at this dopamine shortage as a ratio dop-serotonine issue or an absolute shortage of dopamine?
I always found it weird that the muira puama and moclobemide effect was so short life, like a reserve pool was empty after a week.
Also, any idea why wellbutrin didnt have an effect if the solution should be in dopamine?
/Jaxx
If it was an issue of ratio I think moclobemide probably would have made it worse, since it increases serotonin as well. Therefore, your issue is likely a central dopamine deficiency.

Jaxx wrote:Ow almost forgot, any experience/thoughts on tianeptine?

I don't think tianeptine is for you. It might help those with an endorphin-opioid deficiency and serotonin excess, but it really doesn't help dopamine problems unless it is specifically a downregulation of only D2DR's.

http://area-1255.forumotion.info

9 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:06 pm

Jaxx


Thats interesting, i always assumed a serotonine excess. Is there a clear noticeable difference between overall dopamine shortage vs excess serotonine? Requip would have simular results i guess, still makes me wonder a bit why i did not have a good responds on Wellbutrin, although this was shortly after quitting paxil.

A central dopamine deficiency sounds like something measurable in a bloodtest?

Do you think the deficiency would be a direct result of paxil or was it bound to happen under stress?



Last edited by Jaxx on Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

10 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:03 pm

kpavel

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Area-1255 Intelligence Oversight
Area-1255 Intelligence Oversight
Area-1255 wrote:
kpavel wrote:Very interesting. You took paroxetine for social anxiety, right?
Muira puama and SJW part makes me think again we need some 5ht2a in some part of brain. PVN, MPOA, cerebellum - I don't know... I will try muira puama for a week. Only afraid of beta 1 adr effects. It's anxiogenic theoretically. And you may experiment with inositol or choline or cdp-choline or lecithin. They all have some reported benefits.

Actually most of muira puama's benefits come from dopamine D1-agonism and beta-agonist action. It's pro-catecholamine and anti-GABA.

Arrow http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19067380

Phytother Res. 2009 Apr;23(4):519-24. doi: 10.1002/ptr.2664.
Antidepressant profile of Ptychopetalum olacoides Bentham (Marapuama) in mice.
Piato AL1, Rizon LP, Martins BS, Nunes DS, Elisabetsky E.
Author information
Abstract
Depression has become of universal major importance, and it is therefore vital to expand the armamentarium for treating the condition. Lack of motivation and lassitude are major symptoms treated with the use of Marapuama (Ptychopetalum olacoides, PO) remedies by communities in the Brazilian Amazon. Considering the prominence of such symptoms in depression, the present study was designed to verify the effects of a standardized PO ethanol extract (POEE) on the forced swimming (FST) and tail suspension tests (TST). POEE i.p. (15-100 mg/kg) and oral (300 mg/kg) resulted in a significant and dose-related anti-immobility effect. We further examined the involvement of dopamine, noradrenaline and serotonin in these antidepressant-like effects. POEE effects were prevented when catecholamine synthesis was inhibited by -alpha-methyl-rho-tyrosine (AMPT) (100 mg/kg, i.p.), while inhibition of serotonin synthesis with rho-chlorophenylalanine methyl ester hydrochloride (PCPA) (100 mg/kg, i.p.) was devoid of effect. The blockade of beta-adrenergic (propranolol 2 mg/kg, i.p.) and D(1) dopamine (SCH 23390 0.5 mg/kg, i.p.) receptors prevented POEE anti-immobility effects; by contrast, blockade of D(2) dopamine (sulpiride 2 and 50 mg/kg, i.p.) receptors was ineffective. Consistent with traditional use, the results indicate that POEE possesses antidepressant-like effects, possibly mediated by beta-adrenergic and D(1) dopamine receptors.
(c) 2008 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
PMID: 19067380 DOI: 10.1002/ptr.2664
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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If fluoxetine upregulates D1 receptors that could be explanation of some sexual enhancement until withdrawal in some people. But people mean different things for libido I think. And immobility doesn't seem to be lack of libido for me.

But SJW part should be explained too. Though it increases dopamine...

11 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:19 pm

kpavel

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Area-1255 Intelligence Oversight
Area-1255 Intelligence Oversight
Jaxx wrote:Ow almost forgot, any experience/thoughts on tianeptine?

Tianeptine is forbidden in my country too. You can try phenotropil. But its effect on libido isn't any special, probably longterm firming of erections but without libido it's nothing. But it makes me feel comfortable and I like it Very Happy

12 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:12 am

Jaxx


As i understand it, it is not forbidden, just not available through official channels.

13 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:07 pm

Area-1255

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Admin / Head Writer
Jaxx wrote:Thats interesting, i always assumed a serotonine excess. Is there a clear noticeable difference between overall dopamine shortage vs excess serotonine? Requip would have simular results i guess, still makes me wonder a bit why i did not have a good responds on Wellbutrin, although this was shortly after quitting paxil.

A central dopamine deficiency sounds like something measurable in a bloodtest?

Do you think the deficiency would be a direct result of paxil or was it bound to happen under stress?


You could get a test done for the urine metabolites (DOPAC & HVA) those would be 3,4-Dihydroxyphenylacetic and Homovanillic Acid, respectively. The urine test would be a marker for the amount of metabolites being excreted but unfortunately it's only a rough estimate as to how much is actually being produced.

Requip is primarily a dopamine D2/D3 agonist, it doesn't activate D1 much, meaning, it might or might not help your issue.

My problem with dopamine agonists is in the long-run, they downregulate receptors so you have to, or *should* follow a 'reboot' to bring receptor concentration back up afterwards.

That reboot includes phenotropil which is phenyl piracetam as well as the rest of the ingredients mentioned in this article below.

Arrow https://area1255.blogspot.com/2015/05/how-to-preventreverse-dopamine-receptor.html

http://area-1255.forumotion.info

14 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:41 pm

Jaxx


Thanks, ive ordered some swanson product. Ill try 400 mg one week and might go to 800mg in week 2. Ill post an update soon, no noticable effects after 4 days, but i didnt expect it after such a short period anyway.

15 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:46 pm

Area-1255

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Jaxx wrote:Thanks, ive ordered some swanson product. Ill try 400 mg one week and might go to 800mg in week 2. Ill post an update soon, no noticable effects after 4 days, but i didnt expect it after such a short period anyway.

Keep us updated, what product did you buy exactly?

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16 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:07 pm

Jaxx


This is the product i bought http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-full-spectrum-mucuna-pruriens-400-mg-60-caps

I first tried it for 10 days, but it gave me a continious headache so i had to quite it.
Last week i gave it another try, but after only 2 days the headaches came back.

The only (side)effect i notice is that my eyes seem to be more sensitive, maybe even sharp. No effect on libido however.

I am not sure what to think of it, it could simply be too short of a period to really sense anything. Could also be that it isnt as simple as boosting dopamine levels.
I took Gingko for a couple of weeks before i started taking pruriens, and it did not have an effect on libido, but interestingly i did feel nervous at times, which i hadnt felt in some time. Headache was quite severe though so i had to stop.

I also had a strong reaction to licorice  root in the past, making me think my body is seriously out of sync. (more on erection than on libido, but within half a day).


Any idea's?

17 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:14 pm

Area-1255

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Jaxx wrote:This is the product i bought http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-full-spectrum-mucuna-pruriens-400-mg-60-caps

I first tried it for 10 days, but it gave me a continious headache so i had to quite it.
Last week i gave it another try, but after only 2 days the headaches came back.

The only (side)effect i notice is that my eyes seem to be more sensitive, maybe even sharp. No effect on libido however.

I am not sure what to think of it, it could simply be too short of a period to really sense anything. Could also be that it isnt as simple as boosting dopamine levels.
I took Gingko for a couple of weeks before i started taking pruriens, and it did not have an effect on libido, but interestingly i did feel nervous at times, which i hadnt felt in some time. Headache was quite severe though so i had to stop.

I also had a strong reaction to licorice  root in the past, making me think my body is seriously out of sync. (more on erection than on libido, but within half a day).


Any idea's?

That's an odd reaction you describe to Mucuna. Swanson is usually pretty fair for purity and quality, however, I like local brands a bit better. Growth Factor XT by SNS, have you tried that? That might be a bit better considering they have many synergists in the same formula.

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18 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:02 pm

Jaxx


Unfortunately that's not available here (EU). I finally was able to schedule a meeting with a psych. professor, so i dont want to mess up my blood values too much (in about 6 weeks), assuming there will be some blood testing somewhere along the line.

What is your experience with Ginkgo? It really seemed to remove my brainfog, but not much for the rest. Gave me constant headaches too.

19 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:17 pm

Area-1255

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Jaxx wrote:Unfortunately that's not available here (EU). I finally was able to schedule a meeting with a psych. professor, so i dont want to mess up my blood values too much (in about 6 weeks), assuming there will be some blood testing somewhere along the line.

What is your experience with Ginkgo? It really seemed to remove my brainfog, but not much for the rest. Gave me constant headaches too.

Ginkgo is a vasodilator, so it can cause headaches/migraines in those with a history of them or with blood vessel issues in the relevant areas. Ginkgo can cause flushing and other types of vascular effects like lowering of blood pressure, heart rate etc.

My experience is Ginkgo improves focus, and can stimulate the mind, however, it has other side-effects like worsening some aspects of OCD and can make one more prone to agitation.

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20 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:37 am

Jaxx


Small update: I took a monthly break from all supps, and finally got a meeting with a psych professor, who also did some blood work immediately (results arent in yet).
We discussed 2 issues: total anhedonia and lack of libido. They can be connected, but i feel like the libido is definately PSSD related, anhedonia could be PSSD, could be depression, im guessing both.

He is specialized in depression, and anhedonia is ofc common with depression. The PSSD/libido part will likely need another specialist, but at least he has a network for that...
We also talked about medication options. First that came to his mind were Zoloft and Effexor, both big NO's for me.

Question, which depression medication options do you see, if i dont want to mess with serotonine/SSRI's again.

I was thinking:
- Mianserin (i already tried Mirtazapine, which didnt do much on libido, but it wasnt too bad overall).
- Tianeptine (i will need to get it abroad though).

There are some options im not sure about:
- Selegiline
- Buproprion (didnt help me in the past, tried it for about 6 weeks. Seems to help people as a combo)  
- vortioxetine
- Parnate / Tranylcypromine? (i dont eat cheese, so diet is do-able).
- Nardil?
- Agomelatine?
- Low dose Ablify

Do you see any other options?

Feedback is again appreciated very much!

regards,
Jaxx

21 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:43 pm

Area-1255

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Jaxx wrote:Small update: I took a monthly break from all supps, and finally got a meeting with a psych professor, who also did some blood work immediately (results arent in yet).
We discussed 2 issues: total anhedonia and lack of libido. They can be connected, but i feel like the libido is definately PSSD related, anhedonia could be PSSD, could be depression, im guessing both.

He is specialized in depression, and anhedonia is ofc common with depression. The PSSD/libido part will likely need another specialist, but at least he has a network for that...
We also talked about medication options. First that came to his mind were Zoloft and Effexor, both big NO's for me.

Question, which depression medication options do you see, if i dont want to mess with serotonine/SSRI's again.

I was thinking:
- Mianserin (i already tried Mirtazapine, which didnt do much on libido, but it wasnt too bad overall).
- Tianeptine (i will need to get it abroad though).

There are some options im not sure about:
- Selegiline
- Buproprion (didnt help me in the past, tried it for about 6 weeks. Seems to help people as a combo)  
- vortioxetine
- Parnate / Tranylcypromine? (i dont eat cheese, so diet is do-able).
- Nardil?
- Agomelatine?
- Low dose Ablify

Do you see any other options?

Feedback is again appreciated very much!

regards,
Jaxx

Mianserin would be the best option, but Selegiline is good too. Selegiline can be an issue if you have HIGH blood pressure though, as one of its metabolites is L-methamphetamine. Wellbutrin is alright, not super impressive, but helps with Anhedonia to an extent.

I would look into those first.

Parnate reacts bad in some people, and too much MAO-A inhibition can lead to the same issue you started with (serotonin excess, dopamine deficiency etc). You'd be best off just looking into antagonists as of now. Everything else is a matter of looking over your blood work and finding out what works for you.

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22 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:54 pm

Jaxx


Thanks, i took your advice into my meeting today.

After discussing some options we came out with Nortriptyline, as SSRI / SNRI's were not an option.
It wasnt my first choice, but generally MAO's are only an option if TCA's failed (and apparently the segeline patch isnt reimbursed yet for depression, Mianserin wasnt an option for now either). So it seems i need to try this first.
I will let you know how it goes, seems there are different experiences on this medication. For me the anhedonia is priority, libido 2nd for now.

23 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:31 pm

Jaxx


One week of Nortriptyline:
- General increase in energy and motivation
- Insomnia, but effect is declining
- clear increase in libido (dreams, mood etc). Although i feel like it is over already, need to up my dose in 2 days, maybe it will return.
- increase in genital numbness and weaker erections. Maybe a combo would be useful here?

24 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:18 am

Area-1255

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Jaxx wrote:One week of Nortriptyline:
- General increase in energy and motivation
- Insomnia, but effect is declining
- clear increase in libido (dreams, mood etc). Although i feel like it is over already, need to up my dose in 2 days, maybe it will return.
- increase in genital numbness and weaker erections. Maybe a combo would be useful here?

Yeah the benefits of most tricyclics come from the norepinephrine enhancement, unfortunately, they have so many actions on other (often unmentioned) sites like Kappa-opioid (K-opioid) and sodium channels - that makes them one heck of a gamble.

You could try adding like a Testosterone-booster to it, and a little Caffeine throughout the day.

Try,

Arrow Tongkat Ali --> http://ow.ly/TIIa307HMRm
Arrow Nettle High Potency Extract --> http://ow.ly/vs90307HMTL
Arrow Fadogia Agrestis Extract --> http://ow.ly/rruF307HMZN

For Insomnia...

Arrow L-Theanine
Arrow Ashwagandha

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25 Re: Advice very much appreciated on Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:27 am

Jaxx


Thanks ill look into that.
Any ideas on the combo Nortriptyline + Trintellix that is often mentioned at boards?

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